Progression Balance Concern
Progression Balance Concern
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Marko, don’t you think there might have been an error in the calculation of player development progression? Two months have passed and many professional players still haven’t increased even 1 rating point. I know not everyone has a high-level Training Center yet, but most are already at level 4.
It’s possible that the change from 10 to 20 skills directly caused this slowdown in progression.
If a player can gain at most 6 attributes per training session, and each season offers 18 sessions, that gives us 108 possible attribute points.
Dividing this by 20 skills, the maximum rating gain per season would be around +5 (correct me if I’m wrong) — and even then, only in the ideal scenario. This raises an important question about the balance of the system.
Given this, how do you see the attraction and retention of new users in the future, knowing that anyone who joins will need an enormous amount of time to catch up to those who started at the beginning? This gap will only become harder to close and may discourage new players.
The idea here is to understand whether this curve is really working as intended or if it’s worth reviewing before it affects the game’s growth.
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kbondi97 said:
Marko, don’t you think there might have been an error in the calculation of player development progression? Two months have passed and many professional players still haven’t increased even 1 rating point. I know not everyone has a high-level Training Center yet, but most are already at level 4.
It’s possible that the change from 10 to 20 skills directly caused this slowdown in progression.
If a player can gain at most 6 attributes per training session, and each season offers 18 sessions, that gives us 108 possible attribute points.
Dividing this by 20 skills, the maximum rating gain per season would be around +5 (correct me if I’m wrong) — and even then, only in the ideal scenario. This raises an important question about the balance of the system.
Given this, how do you see the attraction and retention of new users in the future, knowing that anyone who joins will need an enormous amount of time to catch up to those who started at the beginning? This gap will only become harder to close and may discourage new players.
The idea here is to understand whether this curve is really working as intended or if it’s worth reviewing before it affects the game’s growth.
Marko, don’t you think there might have been an error in the calculation of player development progression? Two months have passed and many professional players still haven’t increased even 1 rating point. I know not everyone has a high-level Training Center yet, but most are already at level 4.
It’s possible that the change from 10 to 20 skills directly caused this slowdown in progression.
If a player can gain at most 6 attributes per training session, and each season offers 18 sessions, that gives us 108 possible attribute points.
Dividing this by 20 skills, the maximum rating gain per season would be around +5 (correct me if I’m wrong) — and even then, only in the ideal scenario. This raises an important question about the balance of the system.
Given this, how do you see the attraction and retention of new users in the future, knowing that anyone who joins will need an enormous amount of time to catch up to those who started at the beginning? This gap will only become harder to close and may discourage new players.
The idea here is to understand whether this curve is really working as intended or if it’s worth reviewing before it affects the game’s growth.
What did your scouts scouting report suggest ?
I would look at that first off.
But by the sounds of it your player may have fast development level but a low level OA rating.
Pot (= over all level) Dev (= speed of training )
Of course "more scout may offer a different Pot/Dev level"
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I’m not talking about my team, this is a general analysis.
In the Player Search tab, the highest-rated player is still a 37, the same as at the beginning. After two months, he’s still leading.
The issue is the progression throughout a player’s career.
Even in a perfect scenario, a player would gain at most +5 rating per season, which is very hard to achieve in practice (it would require gaining 6 attributes every single training session).
Doesn’t that seem too low?
That’s why i’m questioning whether the change from 10 to 20 skills was calculated correctly. Maybe progression has become slower than intended. And this affects new users as well: with such slow progression, isn’t there a risk that new players will lose motivation?
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kbondi97 said:
I’m not talking about my team, this is a general analysis.
In the Player Search tab, the highest-rated player is still a 37, the same as at the beginning. After two months, he’s still leading.
The issue is the progression throughout a player’s career.
Even in a perfect scenario, a player would gain at most +5 rating per season, which is very hard to achieve in practice (it would require gaining 6 attributes every single training session).
Doesn’t that seem too low?
That’s why i’m questioning whether the change from 10 to 20 skills was calculated correctly. Maybe progression has become slower than intended. And this affects new users as well: with such slow progression, isn’t there a risk that new players will lose motivation?
I’m not talking about my team, this is a general analysis.
In the Player Search tab, the highest-rated player is still a 37, the same as at the beginning. After two months, he’s still leading.
The issue is the progression throughout a player’s career.
Even in a perfect scenario, a player would gain at most +5 rating per season, which is very hard to achieve in practice (it would require gaining 6 attributes every single training session).
Doesn’t that seem too low?
That’s why i’m questioning whether the change from 10 to 20 skills was calculated correctly. Maybe progression has become slower than intended. And this affects new users as well: with such slow progression, isn’t there a risk that new players will lose motivation?
Sorry about that, I assumed incorrectly 🍻
If the player is rated 37 then and now, what this suggests is the player is at optimal peak (imho) or close to it.
In other words the player may or may not gain pending on several factors, age, skills at max, clubs training level.
As above player/s progression is different pending on age, speed of development, clubs over all training ground.
Imho: No , to the low gain/s
Unfortunately their is no way to help newer user /s in that regard besides pointing them to built a team/facilities/money.
(A quote from field of Dreams movie, "built it they will come")
All managers need to scout there squad or players, decide on what to do with said players .
As it stands, we all started at the same time (currently vs say a new user in 6 months),
when that newer user may be a season or three behind but in theory,
catch up or ahead of us ,when we sell or rebuilt our team/s = it evens out.
Managers that have started this game now are on the long road to getting their club to prime.
Saying that at some point the teams players will retire and then said managers that where at the top will likely either start afresh or try sell said older players to try stay at the top. also know as rinse,wash,repeat.
Of Course there are many methods to playing Manager game, the above are two.
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Marko, i noticed that you replied to several threads, but not this one yet. So, could you clarify this issue discussed here? Was everything really well calculated after the change from 10 to 20 attributes?
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@kbondi97
Yes, I'm replying to all topics these days. This is probably the most important one, so I left it for the end. Stay around, it comes soon.
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We are carefully and closely monitoring the training progress as it was one of the rare parts, maybe even the only one, that wasn't possible to be tested completely during the development phase. Also, we did chain of calculations before setting up the current system. If there is any need to correct it, we will do that at beginning of season 3 or season 4.
Going from 11 skills in test version to 20 in the official Game, haven't had an impact on training progress pace. The pace is modified according to the new number of skills.
Your calculation about 18.7 training sessions per season is correct. Generally, youths from academy levels 1 to 4 aren't meant to be good, except lucky rare founds. At levels 5-6 or 7 pull quality (chances) is rising noticeably and at higher or highest levels it should be a different story. But comes with the cost. So, it is up to Manager to decide the strategy and choose which way to go. Focus on TM completely, TM with YA simultaneously or pushing YA as primary source of new players. There is ton of combinations.
Players skills and rating will come closer to peak after their 2nd development stage that ends from the age of 22 to 25 approximately, depending of their scout reports (early, normal, late). At that age, they should reach 70-90% (roughly) of their potentials if trained regularly and decentry.
Potentials of players that were in the Team when some Manager took the control of the Team are limited, so none of them have high or very high potential to improve. That way we avoid randomness and unfair situations that some Manager starts with terrible players and other with great. We are all on the same boat.
Regarding new managers and motivation, it will be easier for them later to build from scratch and they will have more options at the beginning for sure because Managers that started in early seasons will develop they Team already and TM will be much more alive than now without doubt.
All in all, there will be more info in Season 3 Update about this. We are monitoring it from the start, so if some slight corrections are needed in Training pace or YA, we will execute them.
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I got it.
Just one more question.
If there are 18 training sessions and it is possible to gain up to 6 skills at most in each one, is the calculation of +5 rating per season correct? But of course, it will be very difficult for any player to gain 6 skills in every training session. Can you more or less estimate what the rating gain per season would look like with a training center at level 7, 8, and so on? That way, we can create projections for our players, allowing us to identify which ones are worth keeping on the team and which are not.
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It is much more complex than that. Every 1 skill point has 100 hidden points, so players train regularly although we don't see that minimal progress. When they reach 100 for some skill, we see it as +1. Also, players can improve more than "100" for some skill during one training session and in some cases we can see +2 😀
Btw, there will be much better training progress tracking system in upcoming seasons.
